Biodynamics - a few rambling thoughts

Following on from a big newsletter sent out to my customers and subscribers on Friday, which included news about my new wines from Mas Foulaquier and Domaine de La Marfée, one of my customers emailed me to ask if I could reference any serious evidence for the beneficial practices of biodynamism, especially at harvest time. It took me a while to compose a reply, not least because it was such a tough question to answer, but it did make me think rather deeply about whether there is any real evidence to support what this customer quite rightly referred to as a philosophy. My reply ended up being rather rambling, but I thought it might be interesting to post my thoughts about it here on my blog, if only to see if anyone out there has anything to add.

I'm not a religious man, so I guess I have to "believe" in something(!) Nobody has ever produced a single shred of evidence to prove that "God" exists, but billions of people still choose to believe. Given that I am in the minority, does that make me wrong? Conjecture aside, I do believe that at least some biodynamic principles are plausible, though (since I'm not a scientist or an expert on the philosophy) I couldn't really say which bits. All I can do is offer random thoughts;

The world is a living, breathing thing, and every single living thing on it owes its existence to a big ball of gas 93 million miles away. The tides are governed by a big piece of rock a quarter of a million miles away. The rest of the solar system and the stars beyond may or may not have an influence on our lives (that said, I'm not big on astrology, either). So I guess the universe does, to a greater or lesser extent, have an influence on what happens. What I do know is that we all feel different from one day to the next, for some inexplicable reason. And on some days, it seems like everbody we encounter is having a bad day (or a good one). For instance, on one day, a car journey might be completely uneventful, whilst the next day it seems like everybody who gets behind the wheel is a demon and you just thank your lucky stars(!) that you reach your destination unscathed. So if our own daily lives and our moods are affected by some or other mysterious force, then why not the plants too?

In terms of wine, have you ever noticed how two bottles of the exact same wine, consumed at different times, seem to smell and taste different. One may give us great joy, whilst the other may be merely good. Always assuming that neither of the bottles are corked, oxidised or in any way faulty, how do we explain that? I hear that Tesco always schedule their trade tastings on "fruit" days. If the greatest force in retailing (we won't go into whether that force is good or bad here) plan their tastings based on the biodynamic calendar, then who am I to argue? ;-)

As for the vineyard preparations, I'm not sure I can believe that the burying of cow horns filled with cosmic potions has any great effect, but the biodynamic potions sprayed on the vines is another matter. Until recently, the so-called health experts poured scorn on homeopathy, and yet homeopathic medicine is now freely and openly used in the NHS. So if it works on us, why not on plants and vines?

As for what happens at harvest time, I think every winemaker worth his (or her) salt will harvest at the "optimum" time (i.e. sugar, ph, or whatever other method they go for). Whether or not that happens to be on the appropriate day of the bio calendar, I don't know. I do know that many winemakers choose to rack and/or bottle their wines at certain times of the lunar calendar, so there's nature dictating again.

But as I've said on numerous occasions here on my blog, whatever one thinks about biodynamicism (extreme organics or just plain whacky) it is a philosophy which does tend to go hand-in-hand with a healthy respect for the land and a fastidious approach to winemaking. Even if it is merely extreme organics, then it must be even better (and better for the land, the flora, the fauna and us) than mere organics.

I did say my reply was a bit rambling, and I guess it proves nothing. In fact, there is little evidence (beyond the mere anecdotal) to prove that biodynamism has any scientific basis. But the proof of the pudding, as they say, is in the eating. Granted, not all biodynamic growers make great wine (especially some who also indulge in extreme "natural" winemaking) but a far bigger percentage of them do make great wine than those at the other end of the spectrum who take the "easier" route.

As always, I'd be interested to read what others think.

 

Some thoughts on Biodynamic viticulture and "natural" wines

At this week's gathering of the Nottingham Wine Circle, I presented a tasting of a dozen or so biodynamic wines from four growers on my list - Rolly Gassmann, Domaine de Montesquiou, Mas Foulaquier and Domaine de La Marfée. This isn't a report on the actual wines that we tasted - although they were very well received and I think the overall quality surprised a lot of people. One thing is for sure, though - whatever the merits of each individual wine (and I, of course, love 'em all), every single one was clean, pure and full of vibrant fruit. It was no surprise that the Rolly Gassman wines (a 2002 Pinot Gris and a 2004 Riesling) went down so well, as Alsace is a popular region amongst the Wine Circle members (and the wines really were on song). Similarly, the Domaine de Montesquiou wines (the bone dry Rosée de Montesquiou 2008 and the beautifully sweet, yet intensely zingy Grappe d'Or 2004) have always proved popular with the group. And my new wines from Pic Saint-Loup grower Mas Foulaquier were pretty well-received, with the top wine, Gran' Tonillieres 2006, proving the most popular (a serious wine, which will go for 10 to 15 years, according to some).

But the undoubted stars of the evening were the wines of Domaine de La Marfée. Although the white Frisson d'Ombelles 2007 was again a definite jury-splitter (some think it has too much oak - I think there is a great wine lurking in there, so let's see what a few years in bottle will do) the reds were universally popular. In fact, they were more than popular - I sensed that many of those present were extremely impressed, and they are a difficult bunch to impress, believe me!

Although this was, of course, a tasting designed to showcase the merits of biodynamic viticulture, I was also at pains to point out the fact that some of the wines were made with low - or even very low - levels of sulphur. Mas Foulaquier, in particular, uses no sulphur in the vineyards and none in the actual winemaking process. Even at the bottling stage, the amount of SO2 (sulphur dioxide - a preservative) used in the Mas Foulaquier wines is just 10 to 30 mg per litre (the maximum permitted by EU regulations is 180 mg/litre). Bearing in mind that so-called "natural" wines must contain 10 mg/litre or less of SO2, the wines of Mas Foulaquier are as close to qualifying as "natural wines" as can be, without actually doing so. I use inverted commas because - as far as I am aware - there are no hard and fast rules or regulations (i.e. no official regulatory body) for natural wines.

Moving away from the subject of the actual tasting (if you want to see my thoughts on the wines, my full tasting notes are all on my website) this subject brought to mind two separate occasions when I tasted Frank Cornelissen Munjebel 4 2006/7 Etna, Sicilia. Now this is very definitely a "natural" wine - i.e. no sulphur at all. The first time I tasted this wine it was utterly delicious - full of all sorts of faults, but delicious in spite of (or do I mean because of?) them. That was in November 2009. Fast forward to March 2010 and I tasted another bottle - and thse faults had completely and utterly consumed the wine. In fact, it was no longer wine, it was vinegar - and, at around 20 quid a bottle, very expensive vinegar. Basically, the absence of SO2 had rendered it so unstable that it's ability to store for a few extra months (let alone age at all) had been completely eradicated. Don't get me wrong, I love a good dose of volatile acidity in my wine (I adore Chateau Musar!) but this was an acidic, volatile, totally unstable mess, with all traces of fresh fruit long gone. In fact, as one of the Wine Cirle members succinctly stated, "I wouldn't put it on my chips"(!)

The morethanorganic website, which sings the praises of natural wines (and seems to pretty much dismiss every other type of wine as inferior), does state that natural wines must be transported and stored at temperatures of no more than 14C, in order to remain fresh and stable. I'm not sure if that was the case with this particular bottle, but it had nevertheless fallen off its perch to such an extent that I resolved never to invest any of my own hard-earned money in any natural wines (I didn't buy this one) - unless I intended to drink them straight away.

All of this led me to start thinking more closely about sulphur levels in the wines I sell. The Mas Foulaquier wines are all fresh and clean as a whistle, so winemaker Pierre Jéquier clearly seems to have found a happy medium with his sulphur levels. So what of Domaine de La Marfée? Partly because of my experience with the Cornelissen wine referred to above, I entered into a flurry of email correspondence with winemaker Thierry Hasard, since I wanted to know how he achieved such amazingly fresh and "alive" wines and how much (or how little) intervention there was in his winmaking. Thierry is obviously a deep thinker and very passionate about his subject and, as a result, I learned an awful lot about the man and his winemaking philosophy. Here are a few of his thoughts, extracted from various parts of that correspondence (and used with Thierry's permission);

On using sulphur......

"Yes, I use sulphur in the vineyards because I dont know any other efficient biodynamic way of fighting against oidium (LS: mildew - even Languedoc is not immune, during rainy periods). Today everybody is claiming he is using very low sulphur in his wines. I would tell you the truth: it is very easy for me to sell wines claiming they have no sulphur because I use very little sulphur during the ageing in barrels. So, if anybody is asking me, before bottling, "sell me your wines like this" I can say :ok, no problem for me. The only question is who takes the risks related to the temperatures during transportation and conservation? I add, just before bottling, a quantity of sulphur in order to have "20 de libre" (I can't translate). (LS: I think he means 20mg of "free" SO2, which is the important bit that preserves the wine in bottle). I dont fine and I dont filter any of my wines."

On viticulture........

"If you look at my website, one photograph had been taken in autumn, and you can see grass because at that time we dont fight against the weeds. The other photograh had been taken in summer, at that time we manage to eliminate all the weeds we can. The need for ploughing depends on the weather conditions in spring and summer (rain/ no rain) (more rain = more grass) and on each parcel of vines (very stoney/ less stoney) (more stones = less weeds)."

One of the Marfée vineyards in July 2008 - more stones equals less grass (especially in summer)

Thierry Hasard applying a biodynamic preparation in a vineyard of old Syrah, Autumn 2008 -

- note the grass growing freely, due to minimum ploughing

On "natural" wines........

"To my mind, nature is the opposite of culture. Making wine is a cultural act. As a winemaker your job is not to let nature do what it intends to do: vinegar. As a farmer or a vinegrower your job is to cultivate, that means to observe the natural forces and processes and then to prove you have a human brain by doing what is necessary to have a good harvest. Look at what happens to vineyards which are not cultivated for one year : vines die and fruits are spoiled and not able to make a drinkable wine. Cultivating is a human invention. Wine is a human invention. Wine is the most cultural product in the world and that is the reason why it is so fascinating. Am I warming up ? I agree with one thing: I would prefer not to use SO2. It is almost the only product I use in my winemaking. That is the only thing. At that time I think it is not possible if I want to sell my wines all over the world. There are so many examples of "vins nature" completly spoiled. I also know that the addition of little quantities of sulphur is not so easy to detect in a blind tasting (I tried many times)."

On viniculture.......

"I dont use any industrial yeasts for any of the reds or for the Roussanne - that means for 95% of my wines. The natural yeasts of my Chardonnays never want to wake up even after 6 days - probably because it is the holidays when it is harvest time for chardonnays - so I am obliged to use industrial ones!"

So there you have it - a sensible, balanced, but passionate view on winemaking. And a sensible viewpoint on why no completely sane winemaker should indulge in "extreme" natural winemaking. Basically, Thierry intervenes as little as possible, but does so when absolutely necessary for the health of the vines - and the wines.

"Natural" winemaking is not a new concept (in fact it is as old as winemaking itself) but it is definitely in vogue, at the moment. In many ways, it is a noble concept, and I can see plenty more winemakers jumping on the bandwagon before it reaches its peak of popularity. And in an ideal world, all wines would be completely natural. But the fact is - let's be honest - natural wine is a flawed concept, fraught with danger at every turn. Once made, it needs to be either drunk pretty damn quickly, or stored in perfect conditions (and at constantly low temperatures). Any less and the result will inevitably be wines that spoil very quickly. But if I am going to spend good money on expensive wines, I want to be sure that they aren't going to be vinegar when the time comes to drink them.

I like vinegar (and make gallons of the stuff from leftover wine) but I prefer it on my frites, not in my glass.

      

Vinisud report, part 6 - Domaine La Combe Blanche and Domaine de La Marfée

Blimey - before I know it, Friday night has arrived and I've not posted since Tuesday. I must find more time, though I'm not sure where from. So if anybody knows how to fit more than 24 hours into a day, would you please let me know?

Anyway, continuing into the afternoon of our first day at Vinisud, we moved from Brigitte Chevalier's stand straight on to the Domaine La Combe Blanche stand, to spend some time tasting the wines and chatting with my good friend Guy Vanlancker. Those who know the story of how I got into the wine business in the first place will know about the key role played by this man and his wines. For those who don't, you can read all about it here on my website. You can also read more about my current selection of Guy's wines in the Domaine La Combe Blanche section of the website. Although I am extremely familiar with Guys wines, it would have been remiss of me not to taste a few whilst there.

Apart from his premium cuvées (La Galine and La Chandeliere being the top reds) there were some impressive "basic" Minervois reds. The 2009 - not yet bottled - was fabulously soft and primary, supple and intensely fruity. 2008 was somewhat richer, with ultra-ripe fruit. 2007 combined the richness of the '08 with the freshness of the '09 and was absolutely delicious. 2006 was spicy and firm, with a lovely core of fruit. I currently offer the 2005, which is lovely to drink right now, but my experience of previous vintages tell me it has even more to offer. The Vins de Pays from both Tempranillo and Cinsault are lovely wines, both of which display a mix of varietal character and the local terroir. The only grape that I feel Guy has not really nailed yet - at least on a regular basis - is Pinot Noir. The hills above La Liviniere tend to be subject to all the extremes that the different seasons can offer, and whilst the winters can be harsh - especially up on the relatively high slopes and plateaus - the summers are often conversely hot and dry, meaning that growing Pinot is a hit and miss affair. Then again, we all have our follies. And the occasional miss is more than made up for by an array of successes, year after year. I've been working with Guy from the very first day I started my business - and I'll be working to sell these lovely wines just as long as he keeps making them.

       

After we left Guy, we strolled around the various halls, stopping here and there to taste wines from various growers. Some of the visits were planned, others just took our fancy, for one reason or another. I'll post notes and thoughts on some of the highs and lows in due course. For now, I'll tell you about our last major visit of the day - and one which I had been really looking forward to - which was Domaine de La Marfée. I've had the opportunity to taste one or two older wines from this grower before, so I know how good they can be, and how ageworthy they are. Indeed, I posted a tasting note on a particularly enjoyable Les Vignes Qu'on Abat 1999 a couple of weeks ago. But having never tasted them on release before, I didn't really have any idea what to expect of them, given that they were relatively young. But these wines are, almost without exception, brilliant. There's no other word to describe them, in my humble opinion.

With a backgound in accountancy, Thierry Hasard came relatively late to winemaking, making his first wines in 1997. He farms around 6 hectares of vines (on a dozen or so different plots) near the village of Murviel Les Montpellier, a few kilometres west of Montpellier itself. He currently makes five wines - a white and four different reds.

Frissons d'Embolles 2007 is a blend of 70% Roussanne and 30% Chardonnay. It is full of minerally character, with aromas and flavours of herbs, stone fruit and citrus. There's a hint of reduction, though it certainly doesn't detract from the wine, and a touch of classy oak, which adds richness and depth. But the overall impression is of purity and finesse. A really lovely wine.

Les Gamines 2007 is 50% Syrah, 40% Mourvedre and 10% Grenache. I was obviously too busy enjoying this wine, because my rather brief note reads "berries galore - soft but so complex!"

Della Francesca 2007 is 85% Mourvedre and 15% Syrah. Savoury and herby, but again so fruity. Grippy and quite tight at present, but full of rich, almost pastilley-sweet fruit, with excellent balancing acidity.

Les Vignes Qu'on Abat 2007 is 100% Carignan. Once again, we have gorgeous, almost lush fruit, with hints of garrigue and an almost schiste-like minerality and remarkably ripe, velvety tannins. This is another really fabulous wine, which is already surprisingly approachable. A real testament to the potential of old Carignan vines (in the hands of the right winemaker, of course).

Les Champs Murmurés 2007 is Syrah and Mourvedre, made from very old vines. It is a little bit closed on the nose at present, although the palate is much more expressive. Again, a rich core of fruit, but with a cloak of tannins that needs another 2 or 3 years to soften. Nevertheless, another beautifully structured and classy wine.

Looking at the above notes, I almost sound as if I'm damning these wines with faint praise, but I can assure you that I was completely bowled over by them. The white is up there with the very best I have tasted from Languedoc. And the reds all have one particular thing in common, whatever the blends or varieties - and that is a depth of fruit which I find hard to describe. The nearest descriptor I can think of is fruit pastilles (especially the red and black ones) with a rich, deep flavour, like ultra-ripe raspberries and blackcurrants, but alwayys with a lick of mouth-watering acidity. Monsieur Hasard has been quoted as saying that he believes terroir is more important than grape variety. Whatever it may be down to (I think it is probably a blend of great terroir, top-notch viticulture and damn fine winemaking) there appears to be a clear style to these wines, and one that I find very easy to fall in love with. They are just wonderful.

Thierry Hasard of Domaine de La Marfée,

applying a biodynamic preparation in his vineyard

As with Mas Foulaquier (whose wines I talked about in part 2 of this report), it wasn't until later that I discovered that Domaine de La Marfée is biodynamic. Which I guess should not have come as a surprise. As I have said before, whatever you think of biodynamicism (extreme organics or just plain whacky) it is a philosophy which does tend to go hand-in-hand with a healthy respect for the land and a fastidious approach to winemaking. And when the wines are this good, you can't help but begin to believe in it.

I have therefore wasted no time in placing an order for a selection of all five of the above wines from Domaine de La Marfée (along with the range of wines from Mas Foulaquier) which should arrive in stock within the next 2 to 3 weeks. To say I am excited at the prospect of having them on my list is an understatement - I can't wait!

    

Vinisud report, part 2 - Dégustation Melting Potes

The location for "Dégustation Melting Potes" was Domaine de Lezigno, an ancient wine cellar on the outskirts of Béziers, which has been transformed into an urban architecture workshop and artistic space. We arrived at around 5pm, which allowed us around 75 minutes of pretty intensive tasting ,before we needed to head off to Marseillan to check into our hotel. This was an extremely well organised (and well-attended) event, for which the organisers had thoughtfully produced a hand-sized, ring-bound booklet with a page for each grower's details and plenty of room for jotting down tasting notes. The tasting glasses were also excellent - if i remember correctly, medium-sized Schott Swiesel goblets which were perfect for the job.

First up - and one of our main reasons for wanting to be at this tasting - was Champagne Henri Giraud. Until a couple of weeks ago, I had never even heard of this grower. As it turns out, they supply wines for Coutts (the bank) and also Selfridges own-label Champagnes. As far as I am aware, they are otherwise fairly rare in the UK.

We started with Esprit de Giraud Rosé NV, a blend of 70% Pinot Noir and 22% Chardonnay, with the addition of 8% red wine from Ay. A lovely onion skin colour, with aromas of bread, smoke, red fruits and stewed apples. The palate is full of tangy red fruit flavours, with nice persistence. I liked it a lot.

Next was Esprit de Giraud Brut NV, a blend of 70% Pinot and 30% Chardonnay. Persistent mousse, rich in the mouth, with lemon and mineral flavours. Long, too.

Esprit de Giraud Blanc de Blancs NV is 100% Chardonnay. Again, there are aromas and flavours of lemon and mineral, this time even richer, with notes of brioche. Hugely complex and very long. A very classy wine and one which I would love to have in my cellar.

The prestige cuvée Code Noir Rosé is all Pinot, with the addition of 10% Ay red wine for the colour. It is rich and intense, strong even, with quite a lot of oak and, for my money, less elegant - at least for now. It may well age into something really intersting, though. 

Grand Cru 2000 Fut de Chene is a quite deep yellow/amber colour. 70% Chardonnay, 30% Pinot, aged for 12 months in oak barrels. With the aromatic and taste profile of a fine Puligny-Montrachet, this is quite a wine. It has a creamy mousse, with myriad flavours, even a hint of orange, still quite oaky, but beautifully judged, and oh-so elegant and long. A very fine wine indeed.

Finally, a curio, in the Coteaux Champenois Blanc Ay Grand Cru. I'm not sure of the grape(s) but I presume Chardonnay. This is effectively a still Champagne. Again, quite oaky, but elegant with it. Quite austere and firm, but lovely and quite complex - this again is akin to a white Burgundy, such is its weight and structure. Needs food, or age - or both.

All-in-all, a brilliant range of wines, from a grower who I would dearly like to have on my list one day. For a relative Champagne "non-aficianado" such as myself, these are the sort of wines that could give Champagne a good name! ;-))

Champagne Henri Giraud - Bernard (on the right) looking stunned by the quality!

Then to a handful of wines from Clos du Gravillas, made by American John Bojanowski and his wife Nicole, up in the hills of St-Jean de Minervois. I was impressed by the wines of this estate, when I tasted them at another Vinisud fringe event few years ago, and they were impressive this time, too. l'Inattendu 2007 is a white blend of Grenache Blanc, Grenache Gris, Macabeu and Terret. Aromas and flavours of honey, grape, tangerine, lemon and a touch of oak. Nicely balanced. A really good wine. l'Inattendu 2008 has honey and fennel aromas, with an excellent level of fruit. Long and quite complex, but needs a little time to come together. Sous Les Cailloux Grillons (I didn't note the vintage) is a red blend of Syrah, Cabernet Sauvignon and Carignan and is very fruity and fresh. Lo Vielh 2006 is a pure Carignan, aged in large oak barrels for 14 months. It is rich, wild and complex, with notes of briary, tar and tobacco and a backbone of minerality and firm tannins. Give it 3 to 5 years and it will really sing.

I then tasted  a trio of wines from Domaine Roc des Anges, the first two of which didn't particularly impress. The Blanc 2008 was rich and hot, whilst the 2009 Blanc was very similar, though possessed of a bit more fruit, but still overly rich and alcoholic. A 2009 Grenache Gris and Macabeu blend was much better, and much more in balance - grapey, winey and quite complex.

And then it was time for the first real revelation of the trip. That's not to say that the Champagnes of Henri Giraud weren't of the highest class - indeed they were, but Bernard and I had already tried one of those in Nottingham a couple of weeks before, so we were fairly confident that the rest were probably going to be great as well.

But Mas Foulaquier is a Pic Saint-Loup grower that has gone completely under my radar - at least, until now. Foulaquier is a fairly young estate, which winemaker Pierre Jéquier (pictured right), a native of Switzerland and formerly an architect, discovered in 1998 after a long search for his dream wine domaine. When Pierre bought the estate (situated in the most northerly corner of Languedoc's most northerly appellation) the eight hectares of existing vines were just 8 years old, but happened to be planted on some great terroir. Now, at 20 years of age - and with the estate now also fully certified biodynamic - those vines are the source of  some stunning wines. His associate and fellow winemaker Blandine Chauchet joined the team in 2003, bringing with her the ownership of 3 hectares of 50 year-old Grenache and Carignan vines in the "Tonillieres" vineyard in Claret. No sulphites or added yeasts are used in the winemaking process and only the tiniest amount of SO2 (between 10 and 30 mg) is added at the bottling stage. Pierre Jéquier talked us through the wines as we tasted.

Les Tonillieres 2008 Pic Saint-Loup - A 50/50 blend of Carignan and Syrah, aged 9 months in vat. Notes of cherries, bramble and tar, with distinct floral notes (particularly Parma violets). A truly elegant wine.

L'Orfée 2008 Pic Saint-Loup - 50/50 Syrah and Grenache, aged for a year in vat. Flowers again, along with crystallised fruits and a whiff of eau de vie, fine tannins and great balance. Another excellent and very elegant wine.

Les Calades 2006 Pic Saint-Loup - 60% Syrah, 40% Grenache, aged for 24 months (half in concrete vats, half in barrels and demi-muids of between 3 and 10 years old). My note is not particularly specific in its descriptors. All I wrote was "Heady, rich, winey and sooooo complex - this is wonderful!" Enough said.

Gran Tonillieres 2006 Pic Saint-Loup - 50/50 Grenache and Carignan, aged for 24 months (half in barrel, half in vat). Again, heady and rich, with intense fruit flavours, but not obvious. Another very complex and delicious wine.

Gran Tonillieres 2007 Pic Saint-Loup - Rich and explosive - a riot of blackcurrant pastille, bramble and tar. At the moment, I marginally prefer the 2006, but this is also seriously good and seriously ageworthy.

We also tasted a new wine (not yet bottled or labelled, and I didn't catch the grape mix) which displayed aromas and flavours of red and black fruits, liquorice and fennel. That's all I wrote, but it sounds like a promising tasting note to me(!)

The purity of the fruit and clean structure is what struck me about these wines. Is it down to biodynamic farming practices, or is is simply a testament to brilliant winemaking? In my experience, the two are often inextricably linked. Whether you believe in biodynamics or not (extreme organics, or just whacky mumbo-jumbo?) those very principles go pretty much hand-in-hand with a love for the land and a fastidious approach to winemaking. I should mention, of course, that these wines possess a great deal of Pic Saint-Loup "typicity", albeit at a level I have never encountered before in this appellation - and there is some serious competition, believe me. In a nutshell, these are superb wines, and ones which I would very much like to import. If all goes to plan, that could well happen within the next month or two. Watch this space.

Tomorrow, I'll talk briefly about Marseillan, Vinifilles and the first morning of Vinisud.